Sonderfolge: Interview mit Barry Schwartz von Search Engine Roundtable (Englisch)

00:00:00:

00:00:15: If you are interested, oh!

00:00:16: You hundred percent know Barry Swartz.

00:00:19: He is the most visible when it comes to Google news latest SEO trends and inside information from google.

00:00:26: And there's a well-known saying not new if your Curious if a Google feature has been cited before you have to ask Barry There is demand behind an in front of search engine roundtable and then use editor at Search Engine Land.

00:00:43: want to know the latest changes Google has made and see them first, you have to follow Barry.

00:00:49: His recognition includes being named US Search Personality of The Year in the year two thousand eighteen receiving search engines lands Outstanding Community Service Award and Being Listed Among The Fifty Most Influential PPC Experts In Twenty-Twenty Three.

00:01:05: And at the upcoming subconference in Vienna in November, Barry will be speaking about content to citations, visibility in AI search.

00:01:16: I'm very happy to have Barry here on my podcast.

00:01:18: Barry welcome and thank you for coming.

00:01:23: Yeah,

00:01:28: it was time to meet in person and I'm looking forward to November.

00:01:32: Maybe we can meet there in Vienna?

00:01:36: Let me start with the first question Barry!

00:01:38: First of all... With everything you write about every day that felt real-time how are you able do

00:01:46: this?!

00:01:46: I mean i am trying be fast but its absolutely impossible to be as fast when it comes to writing a new Google Core update.

00:01:54: You've published almost every single day for more than two decades, with some exceptions.

00:02:00: What does normal morning actually look like to you?

00:02:04: So I'm an early riser...I usually get up five maybe four or five o'clock in New York.

00:02:09: so five o clock New York time but i have a business..so go through all my business emails and so forth.

00:02:14: first then check the feeds see what's going on.

00:02:18: lots of things that follow....i have lots tools to keep track.

00:02:22: when it started I think it was like, twenty-three?

00:02:24: Twenty four years ago.

00:02:26: Following the community back in like two thousand... I started writing about it in two thousand three and i'm just obsessed with how much is changing in this search industry even back then.

00:02:36: The Community How Much They're Tracking It What's Going On The Rankings All That Volatility And So forth Ever since Then I Just Became Hooked And Hasn't Really Slowed Down.

00:02:44: In fact Its Probably The Most Volatile I've ever Been With AI.

00:02:48: You Know This Other Stuff Is Just Fun Down Top Of This Stuff To Write About Covering The the amount of stuff.

00:02:53: It doesn't take me a long time, my average blog post probably takes me around five minutes sometimes less so if that's including all the graphics and tweets and everything yeah!

00:03:04: So it's not huge deal.

00:03:05: I have a lot of tools to automate out of the process... Not writing but in terms of finding this content and then keeping along or what i want to cover.

00:03:12: um..I'm very organized.

00:03:17: Yeah, I think so.

00:03:18: And yeah it seems like there's a new topic coming up and five minutes later you already published an article on your website or on such any land.

00:03:29: for sure that probably right?

00:03:32: On average maybe five to ten things per day.

00:03:36: they're not long.

00:03:36: i don't write these really long deep stuff.

00:03:38: Like I said analysis is more this what's new?

00:03:41: This is whats with nails this community saying pretty lightweight stuff, which I think the community appreciates tons and tons of content.

00:03:49: just to get to core.

00:03:50: Of The Post is in fact Danny Sullivan back when i was obviously working with him as a searcher to watch the searcher's land like Just Get To The Point In The First Sended Zootoom.

00:03:59: A Lot People Like Have A Story Before They Actually Get To That Actual Point At The Story.

00:04:03: I Try To Make It As Quick And Okay, a little bit of information that people could get right away without having to like read on and on an odd to get the okay.

00:04:10: Yeah And there are foreign posts.

00:04:13: They're post-on.

00:04:13: X reddage Google's own channels.

00:04:16: where do early signals come from today compared with let's say five

00:04:21: In terms what I cover one of the singles come from in terms of when I cover.

00:04:25: you're asking yeah they're pretty similar in terms Of What is.

00:04:30: so why write about it?

00:04:31: The search at around table is generally I think the search community is talking.

00:04:35: So, i try to find that conversation.

00:04:37: it used To be a lot heavily more heavily on in The forums like back you know webmaster world and stuff Like That.

00:04:43: um but now as You Know A lot of people are not spending Time In Forums.

00:04:46: But at a time when social media And so forth i follow although i still Follow most Of the Search Forums Including Webmaster World but also i'm On x some on blue sky Facebook i can't really cover facebook so much linkedin I guess X, formerly Twitter.

00:05:01: Some blues guy.

00:05:02: but mostly those three platforms are where we get a lot of the conversations that are going on and i try to like the The conversations that i think are most Buzzful or most most insightful almost worthy To be covered.

00:05:13: then i say you know this person said this And this person says that it's kind of my style of what i cover Including.

00:05:19: Like You Know Google updated his document Or google announced it?

00:05:23: This is What's happening with the rankings and so forth.

00:05:25: A lot Of That has to do With what they see around next.

00:05:28: Um, and I always try to bring the community into that where a search engine line is more Bigger news not about the communities what they probably will talk them out of the future But it's less big.

00:05:39: You know What this person said or that person said because your searcher land has a whole column columnist section Where?

00:05:45: The community itself writes on this site whereas searching around table.

00:05:48: Yeah, I'm pretty much the only person who writes there.

00:05:51: Yeah, and you're the person who can tell if a Google feature is really new or it has been tested once before.

00:05:58: Do you really memorize all this?

00:06:00: Or how can you tell so quickly when somebody asks... No!

00:06:05: I don't sometimes get it wrong.

00:06:11: Sometimes i post stuff that isn't new.

00:06:15: It's an AI company.

00:06:15: An AI company was asking me, what could they build for me?

00:06:18: Like you can build a tool where I upload and image screenshot And it looks through my archives.

00:06:22: You know do a lot of searches most the stuff end to remember not everything.

00:06:28: There are a lot people posting stuff that's new.

00:06:30: That's definitely not.

00:06:31: knew this been around for a long time.

00:06:33: sometimes stuff.

00:06:34: That's new isn't at all important.

00:06:36: Sometimes I'll post something i'd be like you know What maybe I shouldn't have.

00:06:38: I mean just not a big deal.

00:06:39: that this You know button with moved over five pixels pixels on y'know really depends.

00:06:44: Sometimes small things can make a huge difference for traffic to websites from Google search is big.

00:06:49: Things don't make that much of a change either.

00:06:52: so kind Of like.

00:06:54: what's the balance between?

00:06:55: What matters or wouldn't know those?

00:06:56: at the same time I do love finding new stuff and remember when google first Came out with universal search back in like, two thousand seven i think two thousand six where it was The first time actually put more than just ten blue links on the website.

00:07:09: On the other search results used to be just links to webs to web sites.

00:07:12: on google search results they added like weather results and local packs images, videos or what was called universal search.

00:07:19: And I found that before most people covered it.

00:07:24: back then the NBC which is a big network here in US channel.

00:07:29: so its fun to break these new items but seems actually with AI is dynamically building the search result generated by AI.

00:07:39: everything's new including features and snippets, so forth.

00:07:42: I'm seeing a lot of people saying this is new but it's AI who's dynamically building these.

00:07:47: It's not like a Google or went in there programmed something that we want to show they...it's AI doing all the stuff.

00:07:52: So everything was technically knew these days?

00:07:54: So its kind of hard say what is new dynamic versus What Is New That Is Actually Meant To Be There.

00:08:00: Making things a lot more confusing.

00:08:04: Another question is, I think you are one of the most and best connected persons in the SEO world.

00:08:11: Especially when it comes to Google.

00:08:12: people like John Mueller, Danny Sullivan, Danny Weisberg... How did you get to know them all?

00:08:21: That's interesting!

00:08:22: I started a long time ago It used to be Matt Cutts days who was on there named Google guy.

00:08:26: Nobody knew that was Google guy was Matt Cutz.

00:08:29: Obviously he met up at conferences.

00:08:30: He spoke And saw what I write And other people like different executives and different product managers at these search companies, Yahoo!

00:08:38: Microsoft etc.

00:08:40: I met with Satnath Nadella the CEO of Microsoft before he was a CEO in Microsoft.

00:08:46: In a private meeting in a hotel in Vegas.

00:08:48: i think talk about Microsoft being searched.

00:08:49: back then it wasn't MSN Search.

00:08:51: they were trying to pitch me on this type stuff.

00:08:53: but hey Then he became CEO.

00:08:54: so It's funny.

00:08:55: But over years Like The They want to connect With you because I guess they value what You write?

00:09:01: I don't know if they value it or not.

00:09:02: Um, I've known obviously Danny Sullivan from the early, early days before he was at Google.

00:09:07: That's nothing new.

00:09:09: I have no John Mueller Before.

00:09:10: who is that?

00:09:11: He was used to writing in the forums as an SEO and developer.

00:09:15: So i knew them back into...I think it wasn't credit side forms they were part of.

00:09:18: I know uh, I do got Gary ish From google before..he was just a coder.

00:09:23: um before he actually joined google Daniel Weisberg He was a Google Analytics expert.

00:09:27: He spoke at my conferences before he went to Google.

00:09:30: A lot of these are people from for Google.

00:09:31: like Vanessa Fox took me for tour on the New York City building Before it actually opened.

00:09:36: It's massive, massive building and she worked at Google then And I think Matt Custer recruited her.

00:09:42: She was in The Seattle office.

00:09:44: Then when she left Google we asked her To write For us.

00:09:46: Some of them were before Google.

00:09:47: some Of those were post-Google But i cite the community alot All the time.

00:09:52: Give credit to the people who deserve credit.

00:09:54: It's something that they appreciate and at the same time, it's not just Googlers.

00:09:57: I'm constantly signing you know SEOs And pay us paid search marketers is so forth.

00:10:02: i feel like The community by citing Who says what when?

00:10:05: They say it in giving them credit Is very important whereas sadly there are a lot of People on social media screen capture stuff steal your screenshots and so forth and Just don't link to the source.

00:10:14: I think linking with the source is Very important especially these days as AI just car rolling up resources, it's pretty frustrating because the only way you want to write is if they get credit.

00:10:25: And the more you give people credit, the more they wanna share stuff and where they wanna...share with you.

00:10:29: then what do we want?

00:10:30: The community?

00:10:30: I think whatever you can do to promote that helps them so much.

00:10:34: who shared that becomes helpful for communities like a ecosystem.

00:10:38: hopefully yeah

00:10:39: okay Good.

00:10:44: How do you handle a Google statement?

00:10:47: You personally don't believe or let me put it this way, how should we deal with recommendations from Google for which they might be incomplete or misleading?

00:11:00: what is your opinion about the

00:11:03: right?

00:11:03: so that's not good thing about covering if from the community perspective I can be like Google says this and this is but the community saying promise.

00:11:11: It's been happening so often.

00:11:13: And then with all the Department of Justice leaks and so forth, where Google was kind of caught not necessarily lying but not telling the full truth that caused a lot more anger in the community.

00:11:24: or people are using really bad language and threatening our content if it's the contents useful to want us to produce content?

00:11:32: That's useful and helpful that they can rank in this search results or now just use any AI results without linking.

00:11:37: do it because they need that content power their search results.

00:11:40: I think We all have the same objective in terms of, you know getting the right information out.

00:11:46: that could be fast.

00:11:46: But sometimes Google has to also protect certain types of things people who want to manipulate them and it's a hard balance I think In terms of what Google does tell us but they can't tell us And so forth.

00:11:59: They had to be secret about certain things at the same time.

00:12:01: It's not like i just trust google off.

00:12:03: You now write.

00:12:04: there is always trying to rebate behind between lines.

00:12:08: Some people at Google are more transparent than others and it depends on the personality.

00:12:14: So, It really depends And I don't think its so black-and-white when comes to this type of stuff.

00:12:19: Yeah but i think Its great We communicate with us, then we have to give the right context if we report about this and make clear how all these statements can be interpreted or yeah.

00:12:34: How it relates to statements made at an earlier time?

00:12:38: And I think that might help people better understand what they say.

00:12:43: Let's talk about your presentation in the SERP conference.

00:12:47: It is a topic concerning SEOs I think most these days and their customers, you will speak about the connection between content and citations.

00:12:57: And visibility in AI search.

00:12:59: together with Chima-Megyeh and Mitehan Jeselyut both come from classic SEO.

00:13:05: we know Google Search when it was just ten blue links.

00:13:08: You talked about this earlier.

00:13:10: give us some insights.

00:13:11: how do you see current situation for website owners?

00:13:15: For companies and SEOs what to your thing Are the most important challenges they are facing to be still visible?

00:13:38: a sharp decline recently.

00:13:50: That being said, we still need to get traffic and Google still needs our content.

00:13:55: And these AI places still need content though We need to figure out ways that we could you know Still produce content make money.

00:14:03: I just saw this morning This morning at the Guardian Made A lot of money in this thing.

00:14:08: They made more than last year.

00:14:09: There's some publications are figuring it out Some or not.

00:14:12: You're either Being acquired or they're just closing up shop.

00:14:17: There's lots of people I see in the smaller niche areas that are covering small areas, and have a staff at let us say ten.

00:14:23: then you have to let go-people going.

00:14:25: it's hard!

00:14:25: It is really hard for if we sell based on ad impressions so forth... It's hard.

00:14:33: traffic your website as much.

00:14:35: last year two years ago even five years ago.

00:14:37: Yeah, you have to keep paying more because yeah.

00:14:40: More employees and then police salaries are going off.

00:14:43: I don't really have an answer for how to get more traffic from these places.

00:14:47: had make sure they link to us.

00:14:48: i think Us You And I and whoever the search know pointing out How there has To be a fair equitable exchange of?

00:14:56: Of you Know return on investment For US writing content for use or you know crawling our websites and using your content.

00:15:02: You Have to give us something back.

00:15:03: Then I Think Google's Been Trying not so successfully to add links in places, you've got people click but nobody really clicks from AI answers.

00:15:11: It's just they read it and trust that move on.

00:15:14: That being said Google recently is confirmed actually are testing a AI contribution pilot where their paying publishers musing there content within Gemini with an IO reviews within AI mode.

00:15:29: It was clear how much ticketing paid some People who were part of the program set as like a fig leaf meeting giving them a little bit, just like pizza and so forth.

00:15:38: But I doubt it's at the same level that these publishers or these content writers were actually making after in the old days where people Google was actually sending traffic.

00:15:48: but we'll see how we monetize our set on how you make money will change.

00:15:52: thankfully personally out of this situation where i really never made significant money off my writing.

00:15:58: me have software company.

00:15:59: we built software.

00:16:00: they make money by doing that.

00:16:01: This is Really Just A Hobby For Me.

00:16:03: So I'm not really in the same shoes as other publishers because again, it'll depend on that income.

00:16:08: Um...I don't know.

00:16:09: It's a sort of thing you have to keep trying and testing.

00:16:11: The best thing about the SEO search community is they're really good at adapting to change And testing and seeing what works or doesn't work and then adapting against.

00:16:21: Some people fail over years and some do well.

00:16:24: This big next step Is another opportunity for finding out who will win.

00:16:29: In this space

00:16:31: There are some publishers actively their content for AI platforms, but from my point of view that's not very helpful because if you block your content won't be visible as well.

00:16:48: You have one less opportunity to mention or citate it on the AI platform.

00:16:56: Do you agree?

00:16:57: Or what is your opinion about this?

00:16:59: Yes.

00:17:00: A lot of people are, I think there's a lot data and especially Cloudflare makes it easy And they're pre-blocking new sites that using cloudflare.

00:17:07: so a lot of sites are blocking these AI agents.

00:17:10: There's different types of agent.

00:17:12: obviously if you block Google Pre their ai controls in search console You were she was walking google we have to block Google bot and you have to blog both search traffic as, uh, search bots.

00:17:25: As well as their AI overviews and AI

00:17:27: mode.".

00:17:28: And nobody's like,"Well we want to show up in Search but We just don't wanna Show Up In Your AI Responses".

00:17:32: So now Google gives you a way To block that.

00:17:34: so Now even if You could Block That Type Of Stuff Still Should You I mean?

00:17:37: Do you still Want To Come Off?

00:17:39: You Know People Are Saying You Want your Brand To Show Up There Like If Somebody Does A Search On Top of.

00:17:42: You're Really Really Good.

00:17:43: You're really Smart.

00:17:44: You Wanna Be Known As The Expert.

00:17:46: Just You Always Known Is.

00:17:46: the Expert Said You Want To Rank.

00:17:47: Well But You Also Want To be Shown In These Ai Responses.

00:17:50: Everyone Features Snippets First Launched.

00:17:52: I Think It Was I don't know, two thousand nine would never want that.

00:17:55: Publishers are like going crazy!

00:17:56: Like you're giving a snippet of our content at the top.

00:17:59: nobody's gonna click Nobody is gonna click on it.

00:18:01: we all upset.

00:18:02: A few months later.

00:18:04: everybody wanted to feature snippets stop because people were clicking Yeah with AI overviews and not getting in that click.

00:18:09: That's the problem.

00:18:09: It's Not Getting In That Click.

00:18:11: Google won't show us The data in search console part.

00:18:13: They Don't Give Us Click Data.

00:18:15: They don't give us future snippet collect data either, they almost did.

00:18:18: I saw a screenshot of it.

00:18:19: that were beta testing.

00:18:20: if they'd actually never released to get shows me That i think people are less likely when they have a snippet Of the answer especially with them.

00:18:25: a longer version The answers reviews and even a longer answer in the AI mode results.

00:18:30: Ultimately Google's moving towards AI mode where there giving long answers to queries.

00:18:34: But your only help you're only saviour is the brand?

00:18:37: That shows up as often as possible.

00:18:39: how to monetize that brand?

00:18:40: brand worship I don't know.

00:18:42: Maybe you get on TV shows, maybe you speak at conferences... You sell some swag!

00:18:49: But when somebody goes to your website either people are mentioning their brand in AI Overviews or whatever, they have to sign up for a newsletter and social channels.

00:19:02: but i do not think blocking is the answer especially if you do not block Google Microsoft Bing.

00:19:08: You want the big players to be able to get there is maybe the smaller that may be are giving you no return on investment No mentions at all and nobody's really using them.

00:19:16: Maybe you block those if your server can handle it.

00:19:19: servers.

00:19:20: Generally I'm up pretty quickly or pretty cheaply, but i don't block anything On my website.

00:19:25: unless again everybody heads gets a day Or two where somebody has tried to your website like do something generally?

00:19:31: I try not to block anything even in cloudflare.

00:19:34: allow it all.

00:19:36: Again, a different situation.

00:19:37: but a lot of publishers do want to block because they wanna be paid for the content.

00:19:41: I don't know.

00:19:41: that's a tough situation But me?

00:19:43: I would never block.

00:19:45: Okay You spoke about data and one of the biggest And from my point of view still unsolved problems is tracking AI visibility.

00:19:56: This begins with Google not giving us click-data From the AI features in Search Console of the huge variety of prompts, the missing predictability and different platforms with their own requirements.

00:20:11: What is your way to...

00:20:14: It's tough!

00:20:15: I mean so Google gives you a little bit data in Search Console around AI performance.

00:20:22: Microsoft give more in their Big Webmaster tools than Google does So that coming directly from this search engine which was useful.

00:20:29: Then we have all these third party tool that are trying around how AI problems and so forth.

00:20:34: But the problem is, everybody kind of gets a different answer in those AI's problems as well like this type of query... So it's all out there.

00:20:43: but again you want to know often your brand showing up more than maybe somebody else for those types general queries that people are searching And its not perfect!

00:20:53: I really would love to get more data directly from the actual search engines.

00:20:56: OpenAI has nothing.

00:20:57: OpenAI should come down with something.

00:20:59: They have an ad platform now, so that might give you some data.

00:21:02: But in general kind of like out... You don't know what's really going on.

00:21:06: We have less and less data And that's been the trend also when Google came down with their HTTPS results and they removed SSL and it removes The referral query.

00:21:15: That was a big leap In terms not having enough data to analyze What's going on?

00:21:19: Then Google Analytics Rebuilt themselves into GA-IV and gave us even less information.

00:21:23: It wasn't giving us, you know Was kinda hard to use.

00:21:29: Now, Google not sharing data makes our jobs harder.

00:21:33: But honestly if there's other ways that people are engaging with this stuff?

00:21:38: Are they engaging on social or in your email?

00:21:40: Or are you engaging by downloading stuff from the website?

00:21:43: It is not great and it isn't perfect.

00:21:45: but do what we have to say.

00:21:50: What number would like Google personally publish that it currently doesn't?

00:21:56: What number I'm sorry

00:21:57: or what?

00:21:58: What's uh, what value about Search performance?

00:22:04: so what metric would i like them to provide?

00:22:06: yeah.

00:22:08: Obviously the number one thing is click data.

00:22:10: i want To know if people are clicking.

00:22:11: i wanna say you Know how many clicks i'm getting from ai mode versus ai overviews vs core search.

00:22:16: that Would obviously give me The click-through rate.

00:22:17: google doesn't even Give query data.

00:22:20: microsoft does give query Data in a Wrap it up.

00:22:24: It's not this exact query, but as close enough is the fan out query.

00:22:28: I would like to see number one click data from all of them and then query data for Google.

00:22:33: Okay Yeah You talked about this before but To get back to this Is the speed in the dynamics?

00:22:42: Of the changes we are facing especially in search and has increased by magnitude.

00:22:49: And it's very hard to say how much search, or how certain I will look in a year.

00:22:57: accordingly It is difficult to predict what content creators and website owners should focus on In order still be visible the near future.

00:23:06: What are your recommendations?

00:23:08: How do you use the available resources?

00:23:11: So how Google Search can change that?

00:23:15: Yes!

00:23:17: How should we prepare for possible changes if that's a way?

00:23:23: I mean Google keeps saying AI mode is not the future of search, even though Google said that years ago.

00:23:29: You can see the trends.

00:23:30: AI mode as the future in Google Search.

00:23:32: you could see it happening.

00:23:34: so If you want to know what will happen with Google... I've spent alot time on AI Mode.

00:23:39: Do your queries there and see how your website coming up Your brands are coming up And then do all you can in there.

00:23:45: The problem was people were doing like SEO from, like, twenty years ago.

00:23:49: Like examples of listicles and buying certain things that were popular back in the early days.

00:23:55: And it's just going to end up not working in a future or is gonna hurt them in the future.

00:24:00: so be careful.

00:24:01: again comes back as kind of corny because back they're writing really good content at.

00:24:04: Google wants show in those AI mode results that that chat you do want us showing their responses that if Ropik was doing there are sponsors and big and so forth.

00:24:12: ultimately I think It was funny cause i think The Old State was like don't skate to Where the you know to the puck now skate to where the puck will be like, You want to make sure though?

00:24:21: You could go ahead and do stuff that AI results look The way you want them too for your brand.

00:24:26: but when those ai platforms When those a i platforms are updating to make Sure.

00:24:34: The quality of the results or better They're gonna Go ahead And get rid Of Those cheap Tactics That Are Manipulating Its Own AI Results and Make Sure That It's Quality.

00:24:43: And Google's been doing this for many, many years.

00:24:44: They have to leg up against anybody any of these platforms first spam texture and so forth.

00:24:50: You'll see I think we just had an update thing that the August Spam Update got rid a lot on these low tactic methods.

00:24:57: there some more to go after in Google working on it but i wouldn't Just take shortcuts To go ahead and try you know manipulate those results.

00:25:04: Take a look at the AIMO result See how they respond?

00:25:07: What is the conflict changing?

00:25:08: So might be a little bit too early.

00:25:09: say what will Be The future?

00:25:10: But I Think AI mode general, that's the future of Google search and you have to figure out how show up there.

00:25:16: Okay now something for our European listeners as Europe regulates rules such much harder than US from outside.

00:25:30: one example is shopping which has almost vanished from search results in these days, and from the outside.

00:25:40: Does that help publishers or does it mostly produce paperwork?

00:25:47: Which change – the vertical search stuff... The stronger

00:25:50: regulation of search in Europe I mean so Google cannot show special features available for example

00:26:01: Right.

00:26:01: Okay, so that's those vertical search changes under the Digital Markets Act?

00:26:05: Yeah like AI mode which came a lot later in Europe than in US for example

00:26:12: right I mean it doesn't cause any problem of people America I'm in New York but probably causes more work from Google because they have to different types and just came out recently with their regional differences documents showing how different search results Different across different regions specifically in Europe as well South Africa and so forth And that's more work for Google and customization.

00:26:38: is Google called those changes related to the Digital Markets Act The biggest reduction of their search quality In there history, which was a big deal.

00:26:46: That being said it's funny I looking back at that statement Google made the biggest reduction in search quality.

00:26:52: how they measure that reduction was people are Clicking now less two the websites of those brands.

00:27:00: And two, it's leading to people doing more searches which is funny if you look at Google's metrics for how successful AI mode and how successful I overuse our people as the complete opposite.

00:27:12: People are still clicking or clicking less through AI?

00:27:16: People are clickless to websites that people are doing more search is a reduction in search quality by having a reason they have on this whole tangent of another thing.

00:27:23: but basically It just seems like ironic that we'll use that statement less clicks and more searches, when that's exactly what AI overviews an AI motor doing to call the Digital Markets Act.

00:27:36: And how Google has changed their results is show competitive information.

00:27:39: there like now Google has to show weather results from other weather providers not just whether it was their own license.

00:27:46: Google actually shows hotel results from not just Google hotels but from booking.com and from Expedia so forth.

00:27:54: I don't know if thats a reduction in search quality gives people more options, but in the

00:27:58: U.S.,

00:27:59: we don't have that and I know there's links there to how do be included?

00:28:03: if you are a Expedia type of website they're links there.

00:28:05: had it get included There so he should.

00:28:08: If you aren't European region or even for not And you want to get the European market?

00:28:12: You should definitely try to get your websites included in these carousels.

00:28:16: That our specific for the digital markets acting this lot information about them in Google help documentation

00:28:22: Yeah, but I think for smaller even medium websites it's very hard to get into these carousels and to get quoted.

00:28:31: So if you take a small hotel for example which had top ten ranking before now they might have disappeared and with no chance to get back besides having a listing in booking.com or something, that's the other side of metal if you like.

00:28:54: but we will see how this works out.

00:28:58: I think also Europe, the situation is very dynamic and maybe we will see some changes in the near future depending on what EU commission decide or digital markets act how it would be used.

00:29:20: One question to end if there's one prediction for next twelve months be willing to be quoted on what would that?

00:29:32: um

00:29:36: we're still not going to get click data from google.

00:29:40: okay

00:29:41: i would agree with that.

00:29:44: That's the safest bet.

00:29:45: I think maybe never!

00:29:47: Okay Barry it was a great pleasure having you here and thank you for your time, I'm looking forward seeing.

00:30:00: Yeah, have a great time and keep doing your daily content so we can follow you get the latest news.

00:30:10: Thanks for having me and I'm looking forward to seeing you also in November!